tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3744965080541349300.post5609888588998455093..comments2023-10-12T01:36:25.094-06:00Comments on Origin(al) Thoughts: Further thoughts on Chapters III-IVJA Ludtkehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18040770172996576788noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3744965080541349300.post-70768891545577044872009-02-07T17:22:00.000-07:002009-02-07T17:22:00.000-07:00To read about the history of methods of classifica...To read about the history of methods of classification, see this book: "A.L. Panchen. Classification, Evolution, and the Nature of Biology. Cambridge University Press".<BR/><BR/>To answer Lorraine's question about why we need to classify organisms, I would put forth that with a group like beetles which has an enormous diversity of species, we really need to put them in larger groups in order to facilitate communication. I wouldn't know what a person was really talking about if they mentioned a species name, but if they told me the family name, I would have a much better understanding of what they were talking about.Tonyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07201348500020029001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3744965080541349300.post-65167316805002857382009-01-30T11:26:00.000-07:002009-01-30T11:26:00.000-07:00Wish I knew where that graduate colloquium was (I'...Wish I knew where that graduate colloquium was (I'm still getting oriented and my U of C search turned up nothing)<BR/><BR/>As for that last question, I'm sure Mike can give much better historical and philisophical answers than me. <BR/><BR/>However, working with plants, a lot of what I have done is classify, and re-classify things. Doing any research on plants inevitably comes up with re-naming and classification issues, which when you are searching for journal articles can be very frustrating that your plant has been bumped to another family, order, or totally re-named.<BR/><BR/>I have often railed against the heirarchal classification system, and I am likely one of the few plant-based scientists who is not in love with Linnaeus' idea (I had a highschool teacher who studied botany for her BSc and wanted to name her daughter Linnaea!). I can see the need as humans for us to put things in their labelled boxes, for easy retrieval and so that we don't feel that we live in chaos. I still don't like the idea. Classifying in this way is very unnatural to me. <BR/><BR/>I agree more with the modern move to classification based on divergence patterns along the evolutionary tree, less on simple morphological traits. Even this can be incredibly confusing with different groups of scientists arguing their method for figuring it out. Take the molecular clocks vs. fossil records debates in post mass extinction divergence. Many molecular clocks researchers propose divergence hundreds of thousands to millions of years before the evidence is found in the fossil record. This way of classifying, if every agreed upon, would be lovely but until that point I believe things will be shuffled around constantly.<BR/><BR/>A more natural system of classification may be a less precise one, or one not based on evolutionary or morphological relationship but on ecological niches.<BR/><BR/>Now I ask the philosophical question. Why do we feel the need to have to classify something and name it and put it in its box. Can't we just give it a name, not a rank in the hierarchy of life?<BR/>(for all purposes of many scientists, this wouldn't work, I know. It's just a pretty dream)<BR/><BR/>Humanity is getting over it's heirarchal classifications of itself (at least in the western world). There are less Kings and Queens, Serfs, Lords, Barons, Viscounts, Upper class, working class, blue-collar/White-collar distinctions in todays society. If we could do it, why can't the rest of the biota?Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10881485880029406939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3744965080541349300.post-36113058254972274202009-01-29T17:36:00.000-07:002009-01-29T17:36:00.000-07:00Incidentally, I am giving a talk tomorrow at the g...Incidentally, I am giving a talk tomorrow at the graduate colloquium series which argues for a positive answer regarding your last question above. This follows somewhat in the footsteps of Nelson Goodman (1978) for those interesed.Mike Steinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06709792986960791510noreply@blogger.com